Re: [hylafax-users] Call to voice no says "no carrier detected" and comm time 0

["Edison Cneeden" <edison_cneeden@hotmail.com>]

I think a policy change is the best way to go. We will probably charge bad 
numbers with a fixed charge because resources are consumed and opportunity 
is lost. Another way is to charge the time the modem was in use, because 
resources are consumed for this duration.

I knew this would be a problem, the minit I realised that there is indeed no 
way to exactly register the time the remote went off hook.

IMHO this is the gratest mistake manufacturers have ever made. (When was the 
first modem made?)

Regards,

Edison



>From: Lee Howard <faxguy@howardsilvan.com>
>To: Aidan Van Dyk <aidan@highrise.ca>
>CC: Edison Cneeden <edison_cneeden@hotmail.com>, hylafax-users@hylafax.org
>Subject: Re: [hylafax-users] Call to voice no says "no carrier detected" 
>and comm time 0
>Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:14:25 -0700
>
>On 2003.08.05 08:37 Aidan Van Dyk wrote:
>
>>This will also start counting connection time before the dialing on
>>every call, so a "NO ANSWER" call will have 10-20 seconds of
>>connection
>>time to invoice...
>
>Closer to 30 seconds in Class 1.  It will vary in Class 2 depending on the 
>S-register.  Many modems cannot distinguish between NO CARRIER and NO 
>ANSWER (i.e. they don't support "@"), and it's not always ideal to use that 
>feature anyway because some remote systems which try to distinguish the 
>type of incoming call can not tell that the call is a fax (when "@" is 
>used).
>
>>How about tacking on a charge for all NO CARRIERs (i.e. they give
>>you dirtier list, they get charged more, the cleaner their list, the
>>less of these they get billed).
>
>The time between ATD and +FCO/CONNECT can be quite a long time, especially 
>in Class 2 if the systems take a while to handshake.  So even if the remote 
>system *is* a fax machine connTime will be always be less than the actual 
>connection time, and in some cases it could be substantially less.
>
>In the analog world we've no way to know if the remote is off-hook or not 
>until we get CONNECT/+FCO.  In the digital world the modem should know the 
>precise moment at which the remote went off-hook, but getting that 
>information from the modem may not be possible.  In either case, I think 
>that completely accurate billing would require cross-referencing with the 
>telco, so connTime then becomes irrelevant.
>
>If cross-referencing is not feasible it then becomes a matter of policy on 
>whether the company will bill its clients all time off-hook or something 
>less.  Billing for time off-hook seems an appropriate way to "punish" dirty 
>lists.  Furthermore, a company will usually bill a client for its resources 
>that that are expended on behalf of the client not just for costs incurred. 
>  So, whether or not there is an answer or not, resources are being used 
>and consumed, and again the company needs to decide how it intends to 
>recover that loss - even if it is merely an opportunity cost.
>
>As it is, connTime tells us how quickly *HylaFAX* did its job.  This is 
>useful when altering protocol and comparing sets of transactions to see if 
>a particular protocol change improved transfer times.  connTime is not 
>particularly useful in determining the connection time that the telco will 
>use.
>
>Lee.

_________________________________________________________________
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