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i spake too soon. chmod 644 does indeed allow tkhylafax to start as user, but then i get errors when i try to send. and when i chmod 644 /var/spool/fax/etc/hosts, i get the same error when i try, say, faxstat as root. which i discovered buried somewhere in the docs -- that if hosts is anything but 0600, nobody can read it. so the permission issue is elsewhere. and with it at 600, faxstat works both as root and as user -- but then tkhylafax won't start as user. nasty little quandry here that someone must have solved. anybody? -- dep ___________________________________________________________________ "Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state lives at the expense of everyone." -- Frederic Bastiat, 1848